2024 season

gpl dirtgear league
André Jahren
Posts: 124
Joined: 05 Jan 2023, 16:36
Location: Norway
Contact:

2024 season

Post by André Jahren » 06 Dec 2023, 16:02

Hi,

For next year we are thinking about doing some changes.

1. We suggest to remove the steward functionality, where they evaluate all races. It will now be something that is looked at if anyone protests and want stewards to evaluate an incident.
Everyone have 24 hours after the race to ask for a incident to be reviewed. A protest must be raised in the race thread on our forum.

2. We then also suggest to remove the License points next year. Penalties will only be handed out per race.

3. We suggest to reduce the number of races from 18 to 12 per year. With 6 or 7 before summer and 5 or 6 after summer.

4. Let's discuss if we should use a slightly different DG patch. One were we may have different strategies that can play out in a race. 1 stop, 0 stops, or even 2 stops.

5. Does anyone else have any other suggestions for changes?

User avatar
Olaf Lehmann
Posts: 120
Joined: 16 Oct 2016, 17:13

Re: 2024 season

Post by Olaf Lehmann » 08 Dec 2023, 14:54

3. Yes, I would prefer a 3-week rhythm between races. That would be enough for an old man like me.

1./2.I don't think we necessarily need race commissioners. I think we're all sensible people who are self-critical anyway.

4. Something occurred to me. At the end of the EOLC times, we used a completely different tyre calculation method. Quote from the EOLC forum archive (translated by deepl):
"Tyre wear is now even more dependent on driving style. V-turns, aggressive starts or full throttle driving over high curbs, etc. can cause much more wear than in the previous versions, which can lead to quasi damage to the tyre if the driver is not careful."
Theoretically, this wear can be incorporated into the current patch without too much effort.
I was enthusiastic about this code at the time (and still am), but then withdrew this type of tyre wear because there was at least one driver in the EOLC who was extremely against it, because you can sometimes ruin your tyres in the dirt to such an extent that you are forced to make an immediate pit stop.
I didn't think that was far-fetched, because in real Formula 1 it also happened that someone ruined their tyre on a trip into the green.

5. Another thing that would also lead to more or longer pit stops would be variable repairs. Especially because André and Tim almost always finish in the top two places despite damage (if they don't retire completely), this seems to make sense to me.


Another thing: I find the scoring system embarrassing with so few participants. If I'm last to arrive, I'm often sixth. Then I get about half as many points as the winner. In real motorsport, a win or a podium finish counts much more. It can't be that if I finish last twice, I get about as many points as someone who wins.
That's why I'd argue in favour of the normal 67 points 9/6/4/3/2/1, given that the number of participants will certainly remain low.

So much at the moment from my side.

BR Olaf

P.S.: Where is Dag the old DG enthusiast and the driving force to publicise dgp?

André Jahren
Posts: 124
Joined: 05 Jan 2023, 16:36
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: 2024 season

Post by André Jahren » 09 Dec 2023, 13:20

1&2 - Agree.

3 - Good.

4 - This sounds exiting. Let's explore this and maybe change from Short Pro mode to Long Pro mode.

5 - Sounds fair.

Points - Let's change them for next year.

User avatar
snafu
Posts: 71
Joined: 09 Apr 2023, 20:56
Location: Hall End, England

Re: 2024 season

Post by snafu » 11 Dec 2023, 01:49

As a returnee who has only raced for the 2nd half of the season I'm not sure I'm qualified to have a valid opinion.

But I'm always happy to give it. :)

I fully agree on the stewarding. I think all the current participants drive to a standard that makes reviewing every race unnecessary and should only be required if a protest is raised. I don't think there is anyone here who drives recklessly. The licence points are a good idea although a simple penalty on a race by race basis could easily replace them.

I think it would be a shame to reduce the number of races down to 12. I agree 18 is a lot when most have jobs and family to consider. I would prefer 14 races. Many leagues have a summer break. This used to be a blessing for me when I had to juggle family and work but more recently as I have retired and sadly lost my wonderful Joanne I tend to holiday away from the traditional periods so find myself away during the active season. (Like November in Scotland - it's cheaper). :D

I originally threw my toys out of the pram when the latest version of the DG patch was introduced and went off in a huff. But I understand now that was because of my state of mind regarding losing Joanne rather than any inherent problem with the latest version of the patch. I think tyre damage due to driving over high curbs etc would be a great addition to the patch.

Damage due to extended periods off track I'm not so keen on. In reality tyre wear in 1967 was of quite low consideration in the grand scheme of things, tyres were even used for more than one race and I don't believe driving over grass really had the effect it has in modern F1. Even tyre changes were almost unheard of in 1967 unless due to damage. So I think this just adds an "arcade" element that I feel is in direct opposition to what HIES is trying to promote.

Variable repairs is interesting.. Exactly how would that work? Would you get a choice on what to repair or would the repair time be adjusted depending on damage suffered? (So it would take longer to repair suspension damage on 2 wheels than a single wheel).

I don't really have an opinion on the points system. Has anyone applied previous season's results to the proposed system to see what effect it had. I do wonder if splitting the points across less finishing positions might mean the chamionship could be decided with several races to go. Could we introduce a point for fastest lap? (I know this wasn't a feature for the 1967 season).

Like everyone else I wish we could attract a few more drivers. I have seen a few drivers I do not recognise posting times on the Pre qualifying Server, so there are people out there who understand how the patch works. It is a shame they do not turn up on race night.

I've mentioned this before but I would be interested in trying the Historical mod for a fun race to see how compatible it is with the DG patch.

Sorry it's such a long post.

TTFN
John.
Fast, Cheap, Reliable - Choose any 2 from 3.

User avatar
tim
Posts: 67
Joined: 09 Dec 2018, 10:31

Re: 2024 season

Post by tim » 11 Dec 2023, 10:31

..I read with plessure all these thoughts, many of them cover wishes of mine.
I agree to every single point, except reducing races. But it´s just that I like to race more often. But, no problem..I understand
I hope we stay on thursday as raceday.

Like John, I want to know more details about Olafs possibilities. -very interesting!

Thank you!

User avatar
Olaf Lehmann
Posts: 120
Joined: 16 Oct 2016, 17:13

Re: 2024 season

Post by Olaf Lehmann » 11 Dec 2023, 14:58

Code: Select all

I think tyre damage due to driving over high curbs etc would be a great addition to the patch.

Damage due to extended periods off track I'm not so keen on. In reality tyre wear in 1967 was of quite low consideration in the grand scheme of things, tyres were even used for more than one race and I don't believe driving over grass really had the effect it has in modern F1. Even tyre changes were almost unheard of in 1967 unless due to damage. So I think this just adds an "arcade" element that I feel is in direct opposition to what HIES is trying to promote.
All the effects mentioned are effects of the same code.
My starting point was to make the wear effect more dependent on the driving style than the current code - namely when driving normally on the asphalt. This also works very well.
Essentially, the square of the wheelspin is decisive for the current code (the code we have been driving with all these years), and wheelspin³ for the other code. (of course, the matter is more complicated: you need an adjustment quotient, otherwise the wear would be much too high with ³).
The bottom line is: For example, if a driver with the current code has lost 5% grip after 30 laps and another driver has lost 7%, the gap doubles, i.e. driver1 continues to lose 5%, driver2 loses 9% grip.

So far so good. However, if someone gets stuck on the left-hand guardrail or similar in a right-hand bend (when the main load of the car is on the left wheels), the tyre wear on this wheel becomes extremely high in a fraction of a second, and the same sometimes happens in the dirt. But usually only if you accelerate hard or do a V-turn.
I know the latter doesn't really suit the 60s tyres.

In any case, it only works all together: Greater difference in grip loss on asphalt and the phenomena mentioned in the second part.
Variable repairs is interesting.. Exactly how would that work? Would you get a choice on what to repair or would the repair time be adjusted depending on damage suffered? (So it would take longer to repair suspension damage on 2 wheels than a single wheel).
I simply started from the existing repair procedure.
The car is fully repaired after 15s. With variable repair, the car is only repaired to 80%. This concerns toe, camber and engine power. If you have a collision, the camber and/or toe values are usually adjusted. This is the reason why the car then feels crooked.
A concrete example of variable repair: In the setup someone has a camber value of -0.5. In a collision gpl changes the value to -2.5. Then after the (first) repair the value is not -0.5 again but -0.9. But you can also repair a second time (just stop and engage reverse gear a second time), then it will be repaired to 80% again, which means the value is then -0.58 (so it would be almost normal).
The driver must therefore decide for himself whether he prefers to play it safe and stay longer or continue driving with the vehicle only partially repaired.
It seems one or two repair times (15s or 30s) are in most cases enough.
Second example of engine damage. Gpl uses integer values for this. A "healthy" engine has the value 0, a completely broken engine the value 63.
The variable repair always divides the value by 4. In the case of complete engine failure (which rarely happens because you need a lot of luck to get back into the pits), the value is 63/4=15. For second waiting time 15/4=3, third waiting time 3/4=0. As I said, this is rare because you rarely make it into the pits with a completely broken engine. Therefore, even in this case, two repair times are usually sufficient.
If you have engine damage and other damage, you always work on all construction sites at the same time. So if you had both example damages at the same time, the camber value would be -0.9 after 15s and the engine damage value would be 15.


P.S.: The repair_var system you can try out here:
http://race.eolc.de/Olaf_Lehmann/repair.zip
In programm folder should be the file repair_var. It has this technology without the other dg things like dirt effect, wear, etc.

User avatar
tim
Posts: 67
Joined: 09 Dec 2018, 10:31

Re: 2024 season

Post by tim » 12 Dec 2023, 08:45

..thx Olaf!

Q: is it possible then to do both repairs in a row, without doing an extra-lap?

User avatar
Olaf Lehmann
Posts: 120
Joined: 16 Oct 2016, 17:13

Re: 2024 season

Post by Olaf Lehmann » 12 Dec 2023, 14:46

Yes, we can. You can repair 1x, 2x, 3x - how often you want without driving an extra lap. And additional you can change the tires if you want.

By the way: A fast way to try out repair_var is offline in trainings mode, because then you can make ShiftR at every place on track. In case of ShiftR the same happens like in PRO mode pitstops (but without waiting time).
So - as a test - you can hit a barrier. Drive a bit to see how the car feels. Then stop and make ShiftR, drive again and see how the car feels now, stop again, make ShiftR again and feel what the car is doing...and so on.
Or produce an engine damage and do the same procedere...



To test the other wear effect... here is a link to an old dg version which is using the other code:
http://race.eolc.de/Olaf_Lehmann/pitstop6+(dg).zip
You can try it only offline.

User avatar
snafu
Posts: 71
Joined: 09 Apr 2023, 20:56
Location: Hall End, England

Re: 2024 season

Post by snafu » 12 Dec 2023, 19:30

Thanks for the clarification Olaf, I am extremely pleased it would be possible to continue repairs by staying in the pits longer. I would have been less enthusiastic if we had to run a lap between each repair session. I will not have a chance to try it out until after the Rouen race as Rouen has always been a terrible track for me so I need as much practice as I can manage.

TTFN
John.
Fast, Cheap, Reliable - Choose any 2 from 3.

André Jahren
Posts: 124
Joined: 05 Jan 2023, 16:36
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: 2024 season

Post by André Jahren » 14 Dec 2023, 13:49

tim wrote:
11 Dec 2023, 10:31
..I read with plessure all these thoughts, many of them cover wishes of mine.
I agree to every single point, except reducing races. But it´s just that I like to race more often. But, no problem..I understand
I hope we stay on thursday as raceday.

Like John, I want to know more details about Olafs possibilities. -very interesting!

Thank you!
When it comes to the number of races, I do understand that 12 seams like a hugh reduction. The thing is that I as the host can’t really skip a race. So 18 means that I need to be there for all 18 races.

Post Reply